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Old 25th September 2020, 08:02   #31
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!



This is an interesting video analyzing mercilessly why Harley is in the situation it currently is in. If nothing else put together in a pretty entertaining fashion as well. My personal opinion is that it never tried to understand markets beyond its home market and create products that have a global appeal - selling the American style of motorcycling to the rest of the world when even Americans had started looking beyond that. Brutally put, it produces rubbish motorcycles that are overpriced and more and more irrelevant to the evolving motorcycling community and is rightly suffering because of this.


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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
It抯 amazing how we look at company after company exiting India and still think that we are an attractive market and that everybody who is leaving is incompetent and not capable of surviving. Face the facts - India is an extraordinarily unattractive market for foreign investors.

.....

And Boards tend to move in Droves - when GM, Ford, and Harley exit India, and Toyota chooses to halt investments, I am sure the boards of Renault, Nissan, VW, Volvo, Jeep et al will be asking what they are doing here.
I partly agree but disagree with a fair bit of what you've said above.

Yes, India is indeed a tough market and also has haphazard policies and business environments for any investor. However, in this specific instance, Harley's woes are substantially to do with its own failings.

Its also interesting the brands you've mentioned above. None of them have had a really robust India strategy. The only success story in that list is the goliath Toyota which also has been a two trick pony for the longest number of years and has done very little to stamp a more dominant position beyond that - thanks to - in my view, mostly its own failings / perhaps just a genuine lack of interest.

There is a reason brands like Hyundai and hopefully Kia have had / will have a very different trajectory than even Honda and Toyota (lets not even talk about the GMs, Renault-Nissans, VAG and Jeeps of the world). Whether it is in choice of products, choice of variants, quality of service (toyota is excellent here of course). If you have the right strategy in India, it can well create a success story. Most of the brands you listed above don't have that.
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Old 25th September 2020, 08:20   #32
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

HD has been struggling all over the world including their home market, so clearly the Indian market isn't the reason for their poor success.

HD needs an entire revamp of their strategy and product lineup. Their entire portfolio only targets hardcore HD enthusiasts - this strategy will never work in todays world. Even exotic manufactures like Ducati have expanded their portfolio over the last decade to survive todays market by attracting a wide variety of customers across different price ranges.

As a motorcyclist, the HD brand hasn't interested me 15 years back and doesn't interest me today either. I'm sure there are plenty of similar people out there and that says a lot about their failure. Whereas there are plenty of other brands that never attracted me a decade back but today they do.
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Old 25th September 2020, 09:31   #33
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Harley 's decision I suspect is based on future sales forecasts. With the RE twins life got very difficult for the premium marques at their entry level. A product's impact is not immediately obvious, RE is catering to the bottom of the middle weight pyramid. The sportster and T100 are up against a formidable contender. These are the bikes that make up the volumes for those premium marques. Sid Lal has openly stated the ambition to be number one in the middle weight segment, RE is about to release a cruiser this year and maybe an ADV next year.
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Old 25th September 2020, 10:24   #34
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Oh man, I was looking forward to a Hero Harley partnership so I could live to see a Fat Boy Pleasure, or at least a Night Rod Passion.

But yeah, this was inevitable, Harley thinks too highly of itself to partner with budget brands. Their own customer base would've probably revolted, exit was the only option.

Lovely opportunity for other companies to mint some green now.
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Old 25th September 2020, 11:01   #35
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Like many others have already said, I think Harley had it coming. Though it might not be a direct comparison, I feel their current phase is similar to where Royal Enfield was a couple of decades ago - Outdated platform and powertrain, dwindling fan base, inability to appeal to the younger generation.

They will need to reinvent themselves globally, and it is the right move from their strategic point of view. Triumph is a great example of how to make a modern classic desirable and relevant to today's market. RE is also in headed in that direction, thankfully. A few years of hard decisions and focus should set them back on track globally.
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Old 25th September 2020, 11:12   #36
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
The first article at the very end says that, there is BS4 stock left with the dealers, which puts them in a dicey situation. Unless the government gives permission to register these motorcycles, they will just rust with the dealers and they can't run it on the road either, legally at least.



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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
The next motorcycle manufacturer which might be looking to re-evaluate their India journey might be Triumph, considering their sales has been on a decline for a couple of years now.

Harbour City Triumph in Chennai was quite big and they have shutdown and if not in the process of doing so.

http://www.levantri.com/forum/super...reet-twin.html (My Triumph Street Twin)

This thread has a bit about it. Service is already a headache for owners here. The people from Kochi drive down and all the bikes here get serviced. A family friend had an issue recently with their bike and they had to send it all the way to Cochin for service. This was in March and with Covid and the lockdown he got it back only a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully their partnership with Bajaj improves things.
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Old 25th September 2020, 11:24   #37
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

I got a call from HD yesterday afternoon regarding my purchase decision. When I told them about news floating regarding HD leaving India, he tried to assure me that it's just a rumour. I still told him that unless I get a clear news of HD staying/partnering with locals, I am not gonna proceed on my purchase.

Couple of hours later, I saw the tweet from Autocar about HD exiting India. How I wish I would have got the call couple of hours later .
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:01   #38
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

1.India is not yet a mature market for big bikes. Gas is still expensive (not for the riche elite) and these bikes are guzzlers.

2.In India I still think the status symbol is still a car and not an expensive bike?

3.They did not find a suitable local partner for producing this in India and so taxes were killing to import it. Trump did his bit but that did not work out. Triumph motorcycles did smart move and set up factory in Thailand with whom India has trade treaty and bikes are imported at lesser taxes (Heard it was 25% but not sure of it though) and so did BMW follow suit for bigger bikes (1250 GS and F800 models) and for small ones they went with TVS. KTM went with Bajaj as we all know.

There could be many more reasons but these are quickies which come to my mind!
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:03   #39
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Setting up a business in India & running it is still a massive challenge despite all the tall claims of India improving it's ranking in the ease of doing business index and other parameters.

At the end of the day, being a business, if it's not making money and if they're being made to jump thru all the hoops just to make it happen, it's inevitable that they'll shut shop and look elsewhere.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:04   #40
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adwaith View Post
The first article at the very end says that, there is BS4 stock left with the dealers, which puts them in a dicey situation. .
They must have got registered in the dealership name. Unsold, possible. Merchandise, spares, Yes. We may see some lower prices to liquidate.

Dealerships have invested a lot and unlike Harley, they won't be able to absorb, so it will have direct consequences for their owners' equity/ Banks..

As few others have mentioned, someone should take over the plant and rights to manufacture and try to re-launch at more affordable prices. Great oppurtunity for someone with money.

They just sent this mail

Dear customer,
As part of its efforts to rewire the company, Harley-Davidson announced plans to overhaul its operating model and market structure.
In India, the company is changing its business model and evaluating options to continue to serve customers. Our current dealer network will continue to provide sales, service & H.O.G. support through the end of their contract term and we will follow up with updates and a detailed FAQ.
Finance and Insurance (HDFS) related products (Retail Finance, Insurance and Extended Service Plan) will continue to be serviced by respected issuers for their term. For new purchases at H-D Dealerships here forth, these products shall continue to be available through the current dealerships till end of contract term of the dealerships. We will keep customers updated on any changes to availability or extent of this support.
For more details or query, please call 18001026180 or email at rideindia@harley-davidson.com.

Please visit our website www.harley-davidson.com to find a nearby authorized Harley-Davidson dealer.
Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Sajeev Rajasekharan
Managing Director – Asia Emerging Markets & India

Last edited by Turbanator : 25th September 2020 at 12:30.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:23   #41
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Harley-Davidson filed in USA Securities closure of Indian Operations

Harley-Davidson exits India!-20200925_121640.jpg

Harley-Davidson exits India!-20200925_121645.jpg

Harley-Davidson exits India!-smartselect_20200925122218_twitter.jpg

https://twitter.com/VinkeshGulati/st...565379072?s=19
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:53   #42
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Have said this on another thread and I say it again. It抯 amazing how we look at company after company exiting India and still think that we are an attractive market and that everybody who is leaving is incompetent and not capable of surviving.
Saw a thread started today about MG planning to invest 1000 cr and the first comment was 'Toyota should learn something' etc etc. Almost reported the comment as spam, this Toyota bashing has to stop
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:54   #43
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Son's of Anarchy and mid life crisis had me give a thought into buying a Harley.
I guess now is the best time to get a massive discount and buy one.
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Old 25th September 2020, 13:04   #44
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

Even if they stop production, cant they sell bikes under the 2500 units per year ckd rule? The showroom and servicing infrastructure is already there. VW has done well by selling the T roc similarly and with a heft price tag and still customers gobbled it up as its a great product. It isnt always the market conditions which are at fault, many times the products are not suitable.
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Old 25th September 2020, 13:55   #45
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson exits India!

This post of mine comes after many years now. Since Team-bhp started sending Newsletters, I have again started reading on the forum.

I ride a HD Super Glide Custom 2013. Earlier I had a 2010 HD Sportster Low. So, ten years riding a harley.

Needless to say, I am saddened that HD is leaving India. Maybe if they had lesser dealerships and kept a check on expenses early-on, things would have been different today. Although, its easy to say now when you are not riding the bandwagon!

Super Glide Custom - It has a classic harley look which is timeless. I was contemplating on selling the same when I bought a BMW GS 750 just before the lockdown. I can only say that the love for the harley has only increased and I have decided to keep both the machines.

Point I am trying to make here is that Harley is a feeling and it ignites ones passion. It is difficult to replace by any other brand.

Someone mentioned in this thread that there are some 30K HD motorcycles in India. I believe its a great business model to service and stock spares in India. Even if that does not happen, its not difficult to import parts and do the regular maintenance. HD is solid steel. Its not going anywhere. Before, all these high end brands came to india, there were people still maintaining their 'imported' machines. Why the fuss now? At best, it will only become more unique!

Keep Riding.

Life is good!
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